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Does one exist?
For more info on the classification cards and "webitizing" them, see this web pageFrom 1942 class book.
Click on image to see original scan at full resolution (or right-click → "Save Picture As" to download black and white image, to view it at full resolution)
From 1952 class book.
or NMRO (Scott Whitney) CDs/DVDsClick on image to see original scan at full resolution (or right-click → "Save Picture As" to download black and white image, to view it at full resolution)
Spec Value Builder B&M RR (Concord, NH shops) [from Commonwealth Steel parts] Lot # 58 Car Numbers 5100-5103 Quantity 4 Build Date 1941 [1941-10 per disposition records] AAR class FD Lt Weight 70,600 lbs (average) Trucks C Stl sideframes [Cast steel?] Integ. Jour. Box AAR Journals 6½" x 12" (160,000 lbs nominal capacity) Journal Box Lid Symington Gould Tor. Spring type Springs AAR type P-2 with Frost snubber Wheels 28" multiple wear W. Stl. Side Bearings Plain cast iron Hand Brake Two superior Air Brake AB with two 7" x 12" cylinders Body Center Plate Removable 14¾" dia. Contour AAR Coupler AAR type E, Swivel Butt E-61, Rot. Bot. Operated Coupler Yoke AAR C Steel Horizontal Draft Gear Miner A-22-XB, Farlow attachment Brake Beam AAR #3 Brake Beam Safety Support Creco single Brake Beam Hanger B&M (loop) Brake Beam Hanger Ret. "Unit type" Striking Plate Cast Integ. Gen'l Arrgt 5414-A-78 Bottom Rod (Schaefer) Bottom Rod Support Creco Journal bearing & wedges AAR [Brake] shoes AAR #1A [Brake] shoe keys AAR Levers B&M Uncoupling Rigging AAR Rot. S Ry. Eq. Co. Brake Lever Badge Plate (B&M) Brake Pipe "T" Anchor (B&M) Retaining Valve Anchor (none)
ORER Size Data Description 1/1941 AAR Mechanical Designation FD Inside
DimensionsLength 37'-4" Width 9' Height Outside
DimensionsLength 38'-1" Width At Eaves or top of sides or platform 9' Extreme Width 9'-8" Height
from
RailTo Extreme Width 2' To Eaves or top of sides or platform 4' To Top of Running Board To Extreme Height 6'-4" Door - Side
openingWidth Height Capacity Cu Ft. Level Full Pounds 160000
ORER History ORER Date
(Year-Mo.)Car
Numbers# of
CarsDescription 1941 - 10 5100-5103 4 Flat, Depressed, Steel (ORER Note J) 1942 - 01 (same) 1942 - 04 (same) 1942 - 07 (same) 1942 - 10 (same) 1943 - 01 (same) 1943 - 04 (same) 1943 - 07 (same) 1943 - 10 (same) 1944 - 01 (same) 1944 - 04 (same) 1944 - 07 (same) 1944 - 10 (same) 1945 - 01 (same) 1945 - 04 (same) 1945 - 07 (same) 1945 - 10 (same) 1946 - 01 (same) 1946 - 04 (same) 1946 - 07 (same) 1946 - 10 (same) 1947 - 01 (same) 1947 - 04 (same) 1947 - 07 (same) (now Note H) 1947 - 10 (same) 1948 - 01 (same) (now Note D) 1948 - 04 (same) 1948 - 07 (same) 1948 - 10 (same) 1949 - 01 (same) 1949 - 04 (same) 1949 - 07 (same) 1949 - 10 (same) 1950 - 01 (same) 1950 - 04 (same) 1950 - 07 (same) 1950 - 10 (same) 1951 - 01 (same) 1951 - 04 (same) 1951 - 07 (same) 1951 - 10 (same) (now Note B) 1952 - 01 (same) 1952 - 04 (same) 1952 - 07 (same) 1952 - 10 (same) 1953 - 01 (same) 1953 - 04 (same) 1953 - 07 (same) 1953 - 10 (same) 1954 - 01 (same) 1954 - 04 (same) 1954 - 07 (same) 1954 - 10 (same) 1955 - 01 (same) 1955 - 04 (same) 1955 - 07 (same) 1955 - 10 (same) 1956 - 01 (same) 1956 - 04 (same) 1956 - 07 (same) 1956 - 10 (same) 1957 - 01 (same) 1957 - 04 (same) (now Note D) 1957 - 07 (same) (now Note C) 1957 - 10 (same) 1958 - 01 (same) 1958 - 04 (same) 1958 - 07 (same) 1958 - 10 (same) 1959 - 01 (same) 1959 - 04 (same) 1959 - 07 (same) 1959 - 10 (same) 1960 - 01 (same) 1960 - 04 (same) 1960 - 07 (same) 1960 - 10 (same) 1961 - 01 (same) 1961 - 04 (same) 1961 - 07 (same) 1961 - 10 (same) 1962 - 01 (same) 1962 - 04 (same) 1962 - 07 (same) 1962 - 10 (same) 1963 - 01 (same) 1963 - 04 (same) 1963 - 07 (same) 1963 - 10 (same) 1964 - 01 (same) 1964 - 04 (same) 1964 - 07 (same) 1964 - 10 (same) 1965 - 01 (same) 1965 - 04 (same) 1965 - 07 (same) 1965 - 10 (same) 1966 - 01 (same) 1966 - 04 (same) 1966 - 07 (same) 1966 - 10 (same) 1967 - 01 (same) 1967 - 04 (same) 1967 - 07 (same) (now Note G) [sic] 1967 - 10 (same) 1968 - 01 (same) 1968 - 04 (same) 1968 - 07 (same) 1968 - 10 (same) (now Note F) 1969 - 01 (same) 1969 - 04 (same) 1969 - 07 (same) 1969 - 10 (same) 1970 - 01 (same) 1970 - 04 (same) 1970 - 07 (same) 1970 - 10 (same) 1971 - 01 (same) 1971 - 04 (same) 1971 - 07 (same) 1971 - 10 (same) 1972 - 01 (same) 1972 - 04 (same) 1972 - 07 (same) 1972 - 10 (same) 1973 - 01 (same) 1973 - 04 (same) 1973 - 07 (same) 1973 - 11 " " Flat, Steel, Depressed, See heavy capacity section 1974 - 01 (same) 1974 - 04 (same) 1974 - 07 (same) 1974 - 10 (same) 1975 - 01 (same) 1975 - 04 (same) 1975 - 07 (same) 1975 - 10 (same) 1976 - 01 (same) 1976 - 04 (same) 1976 - 07 (same) 1976 - 10 (same) 1977 - 01 (same) 1977 - 04 (same) 1977 - 07 (same) 1977 - 10 (same) 1978 - 01 (same) 1978 - 04 (same) 1978 - 07 (same) 1978 - 10 (same) 1979 - 01 (same) 1979 - 04 (same) 1979 - 07 (same) 1979 - 10 (same) 1980 - 01 (same) 1980 - 04 (same) 1980 - 07 (same) 1980 - 10 (same) 1981 - 01 (same) 1981 - 04 (same) 1981 - 07 (same) 1981 - 10 (same) 1982 - 01 (same) 1982 - 04 (same) 1982 - 07 Not listed
Note J (10/1941 - 1/1947)
Note D (1/1948-7/1952)
Note B (10/1951 - 7/1953)Dimensions of depressed center of cars in series 5100 to 5103 inclusive are as follows: 17 ft 2 in. between anchor lugs; 16 ft. 2 in. straight surface; Height from rail to floor of depressed center 1 ft 11⅞ in. This car may be loaded to 100 per cent of stencilled load weight limit for loads 16 ft. long or less placed between body bolsters.Note B (10/1953 - 1/1957)
Note D (4/1957)
Note C (7/1957 - 10/1965)Dimensions of depressed center of cars in series 5100 to 5103 inclusive are as follows: 17 ft 2 in. between anchor lugs; 16 ft 2 in straight surface; Height from rail to floor of depressed center 1 ft 11⅞ in. These cars are equipped with steel loading floor and have 2 four-wheel trucks. Spacing between the truck centers 27 ft. 2 in.; between axles 5 ft. 6 in.
These cars have loading schedule as follows:
Length of Lading Load (pounds) 0 ft. 142000 2 ft. 0 in. 147000 4 ft. 0 in. 153000 6 ft. 0 in. 159000 8 ft. 0 in. 166000 10 ft. 0 in. 174000 12 ft. 0 in. Load Limit Note C (1/1966 - 4/1967)
["Note G" in main table, Note actually labelled "F" where described] (7/1967 - 7/1968)
Note F (correct) 10/1968 - 7/1973)Dimensions of depressed center of cars in series 5100 to 5103 inclusive are as follows: 17 ft 2 in. between anchor lugs; 16 ft 2 in straight surface; Height from rail to floor of depressed center 1 ft 11⅞ in. These cars are equipped with steel loading floor and have 2 four-wheel trucks. Spacing between the truck centers 27 ft. 2 in.; between axles 5 ft. 6 in.
Height above top of rail to center of gravity, – inches.
Light weights [pounds] of these cars are as follows:
Car # 1/1966 10/1969 5100 69,700 69,700 5101 70,700 69,700 5102 69,300 69,400 5103 70,800 69,800 These cars have loading schedule as follows:
Length of Lading Load (pounds) 0 ft. 142000 2 ft. 0 in. 147000 4 ft. 0 in. 153000 6 ft. 0 in. 159000 8 ft. 0 in. 166000 10 ft. 0 in. 174000 12 ft. 0 in. Load Limit "Heavy Capacity and Special Type Flat Cars" notes - 1/1971
Car numbers Data 5100-5101 5102 5103 AAR Mech. Designation FD FD FD Type of loading floor Steel Steel Steel Dimensions
(Note A)Outside length of car 38'-1" 38'-1" 38'-1" Load Carrying
PlatformLength 16'-2" 16'-2" 16'-2" Width 9' 9' 9' Height from top of rail 2' 2' 2' Height from top of rail to center of gravity Number of trucks, number of wheels per truck 2 - 4 wheel 2 - 4 wheel 2 - 4 wheel Spacing between truck centers 27'-2" 27'-2" 27'-2" Spacing between axles 5'-6" 5'-6" 5'-6" Light weight (pounds) 69700 69400 69800 Capacity (pounds) 160000 160000 160000 Total cars 2 1 1 Notes 90 90 90 Note 90: Dimensions of depressed center of cars in B&M series 5100 to 5103 inclusive are as follows: 17 ft 2 in. between anchor lugs; 16 ft 2 in straight surface; Height from rail to floor of depressed center 1 ft 11⅞ in. These cars have loading schedule as follows:
Length of Lading Load (pounds) 0 ft. 142000 2 ft. 0 in. 147000 4 ft. 0 in. 153000 6 ft. 0 in. 159000 8 ft. 0 in. 166000 10 ft. 0 in. 174000 12 ft. 0 in. 180000 "Heavy Capacity and Special Type Flat Cars" notes - 4/1978
Data 5100 5101 5102 5103 AAR Mech. Designation FW Description Flat, Steel, Depressed, Steel Loading Floor AAR Car Type Code F220 Dimensions Load Carrying
PlatformLength 16'-2" Width 9' Height from top of rail 1'-11.875" Height from top of rail to center of gravity Outside length of car 38'-1" Spacing between truck centers 27'-2" Spacing between axles 5'-6" Number of trucks 2 Number of wheels per truck 4 Light weight (pounds) 697[00] 697[00] 694[00] 698[00] Capacity (pounds) 160[000] Total cars 1 Notes 13 Note 13: Length of depressed center 17 ft 2 in. between anchor lugs, 16 ft 2 in straight surface; Loading schedule as follows:
Length of Lading Load (pounds) 0 ft. 142000 2 ft. 0 in. 147000 4 ft. 0 in. 153000 6 ft. 0 in. 159000 8 ft. 0 in. 166000 10 ft. 0 in. Load Limit 12 ft. 0 in. Load Limit
- Per Tim Gilbert
By 1941 with World War II a fact even before Pearl Harbor, special service flats were required to carry the high, wide, and heavy (and slow) loads. Two designs were chosen - the first was a fairly generic one with a depressed center, the B&M #5100-5103 series [well hole flat info omitted]. Both were assembled by the Concord car shops - the four depressed center ones from Commonwealth Steel parts, [more well hole flat info omitted]These 1941 designs used steel massively. The light weights of the 2 designs were 70,600 pounds for the four depressed center flats and 53,300 pounds for the eight well hole flats in comparison to the mere 37,300 pounds for the #33500 general flat car series built in 1923. Much of the additional steel was necessary to support weight solely between the bolsters. Without this extra steel, the car could break its back with a full load. For loaded cars where the load-bearing surface did not straddle the bolsters, loading regulations permitted only a percentage of the full load limit which could be loaded.
Because of braking considerations, the maximum gross weight allowed on track was only 238,000 pounds instead of the 251,000 pounds normally allowed for cars having trucks with 6½" x 12" journals. This reduced the load limit to 167,400 pounds. Because the load limit had to be more than the nominal capacity, that capacity was set to 80 tons. Other roads, such as the Boston & Albany, Chicago & Northwester, Central of Georgia, Lackawanna, New Haven, New York Central, and Southern used the exact same design, but with no limitation due to braking considerations, the classified their depressed flats as having 90 tons nominal capacity meaning that the calculated load limit was in excess of 180,000 pounds
The load limits of the #5100 was further restricted by the length of the load bearing surface as noted in the [see ORER notes below].
The B&M cars were retired in the early 1980s [by 7/1982]. One was rumored to be in Salem yard in 1997 albeit in a sad state of repair.
- Per Don Clerke
Built by B&M- These are also listed in the "Heavy Capacity and Special Type Flat Cars" section (typically at the end of the ORER), with same (more or less) info. See 1/1971 example below
- Per Eric Neubauer - Cast Steel Underframe Railcar Production (March 2015 "Car of the month") data
If I interpret his data correctly, the casting pattern number was 24848.
The only other cars that used this casting number were NYC #499050-499063 (14 cars) and Southern #250000-250001 (2 cars)
Note there are a lot of other FD flat cars with the same dimensions (NYC, B&A, NYNH&H, CNW, DLW) but different casting numbers, so I am unsure how close/different they are to the B&M cars.- Looking at pictures of these cars, and Richard Hendrickson's "HO Scale Freight Car Trucks" PDF (not sure where I got this from on the web), it looks like the B&M's trucks most closely match the "Eastern Car Works Commonwealth 90 T" trucks in the "Heavy Duty Trucks" section
(note the top edge of the sideframe appears lower at the bolster than at the journals, the opposite of most trucks)
5100-5103: Build Date = 1941-10 [no other data listed]
Source(s) Box Folder Folder name Link Title Approx.
Start dateApprox.
End date1 3 Freight Car List Old 5100 series flats 1941-10 [long] before 1982?
Page Car # Photo Date
yr-mo-dayVisible? Markings Paint
SchemeHerald Notes 
Don Clerke inserts into B&MRRHS Bulletin i 10 photo 22 5100? X p N N N black none side of car very shaded, hard to read. Some of deck visible B&MRRHS Modelers Notes Issue No. included in "page" column No. 104 p2 5103 X p BM R R N N 2H N N N black none COTS Bob's Photos (photo "number" in "page" column, collection in "Note" column) 5102 1982-05-09 p B ex-Harry Frye collection. Highly oblique shot. Number per caption.
Note "B" painted on end (2 places) to indicate end. Brake wheel "up"NMRA Archives (as of 17-Apr-2020)
Select "Photographs" → "Freight Car"
Then in the "Filter by Railroad", select either "BM" or "B&M" (see "page" column)BM 5102 X X BM R R N N N N N N no load. "Top down" view, so you can see the deck pretty well B&MRRHS Flickr (as of 17-Apr-2020)
Select "Albums" → "Cars-- Freight", then scroll thru
Direct links (in same order) are:5101
5102
5101
51025101 1975-07-20 X A BM R R N Y N N N N original? none note "A" on side of car (at end). Car somewhat "bent up" at end!
Possibly second 5100 flat to its right5102 1982-05-09 p B original? none note "B" (2 places) on end of car. 5101 1981-05-30 X BM R R N Y N N N N original? none 5102 1982-03-14 X A BM R R N N 2H N N N original? none note "A" on end of car (toward left). NERail Photo Archive
or http://photos.nerail.org/ → "By Railroad" → "Boston & Maine" →
Then scroll thru to find the photo "Billerica Shop".
or try: http://photos.nerail.org/s/?p=1600891975-01-24 p p Are those 3 (of 4) B&M Depressed center flats being worked on?
or some other ones??Railroading on the Boston and Maine 1955 edition (RDCs on cover)
Originally published by the B&M, reprinted by the B&MRRHS in 2015
Same picture is in 1953 edition (3821 on cover) (reprinted by B&MRRHS in 2016), p13p17 X B N N N N N original Lettering can't be seen.
Note brake wheels/stands indicate this is NOT a B&M 5100 series car.Facebook - Eastern & Essex Railroads (Northshore MA Rail History & Current Operations) group
In a post by Gabriel Wathne (18-Apr-2022)
There are 8 photos posted. Believed to BM 5101, although most lettering severely deteriorated.
Also some photos in the replies5101? 2022-04? X p Black Lettering deteriorated New York Central System Historical Society Archives (as of 28-Jun-2023)
Their archives has a bunch of photos of the NYC created from the same pattern - go to above link and search on the following car numbers:
- 499054
- 499056
- 499059
- 499063
B&MRRHS Newsletter Jan-Feb 2023
One photo repeated in the B&MRRHS "Modelers Notes" Issue 189 (Jul-Aug 2023, p2) along with a B&M representation of the car/scene using the Eastern Car Work kitp8 upper/lower - 1929 Note - due to date, the "giraffe on a depressed center flat"
can NOT be a B&M car (but it is very similar!)Renumberings/Conversions/Dispositions
Models
Scale Manufacturer Stock number Car number Paint scheme Notes HO Eastern Car Works 4800 undec Produced "a long time ago" (1980s?). "Pretty close" to B&M car. Mentioned in B&MRRHS Modelers Notes #130 (Jul-Aug 2006) is a Walthers (HO "Gold line") General Steel Casting 90 ton depressed center flat. This could be a "stand in" model, but it does not have the brace plates, and (IIRC) it is not a riveted car, so you would have to add a LOT of rivets. It is also 5' too long (see B&MRRHS Modelers Notes article above) At some point I'll pull mine out to see what else is different.
More modeling information can be found on James B. Van Bokkelen's web site:
B&M Roster Info
Details on this car seriesRevision History
File History for THIS page Date Who Description 27-Dec-2019 KG Akerboom Initial release 28-Mar-2020 KG Akerboom Added data from 19 more ORERs 01-Apr-2020 KG Akerboom Added references 04-Apr-2020 KG Akerboom Re-did references/photos section 17-Apr-2020 KG Akerboom Added more web sites: B&MRRHS Flickr, Fallen Flags, NMRA Archives, Earl Tuson. Also Scott Whitney (NMRO) CDs 26-Apr-2020 KG Akerboom Changed B&MRRHS Flickr to direct link 01-May-2020 KG Akerboom Added data from 4 more ORER (1941, 1943, 1945, 1947) 05-May-2020 KG Akerboom Moved ORER notes into separate section 10-May-2020 KG Akerboom Added 1952 class cards 12-May-2020 KG Akerboom Updated class card table 07-Jul-2020 KG Akerboom Added Eric Neubauer - Cast Steel Underframe Railcar Production (March 2015 "Car of the month") data 21-Jul-2020 KG Akerboom "Photos" table - changed "vertical" text to PNG of "sideways" text; added "Markings" columns 07- thru
16-Aug-2020KG Akerboom Added ORER data (History only, not dims or notes yet) for 63 more registers, courtesy of James Kinkaid 07-Nov-2020 KG Akerboom Added "NE Rails" photos 17-Nov-2020 KG Akerboom Standardized formatting of Classification Card(s) section 20-Nov-2020 KG Akerboom Updated 1942 Classification Card(s) 12-Dec-2020 KG Akerboom Added model info 19-Dec-2020 KG Akerboom Added JBVB web site links 30-Dec-2020 KG Akerboom Added Walthers model, B&MRRHS Modelers Notes article 04-Jan-2021 KG Akerboom Added Railroading on the Boston and Maine photo 26-Jul-2021 KG Akerboom Added car disposition record data 16-Oct-2021 KG Akerboom Added remaining 7/1928 - 10/1947 ORERs 02-Jan-2022 KG Akerboom Corrected "Note J" first appeared in 10/1941 ORER 13-Feb-2022 KG Akerboom Added truck info in discussion 25-Apr-2022 KG Akerboom Added Facebook 2022 photos 29-Sep-2022 KG Akerboom Verified per [almost] complete ORER data 04-Jan-2023 KG Akerboom Fixed headers and footers...hopefully 28-Jun-2023 KG Akerboom Clarified some text (pattern number) and added NYCSHS photo link for cars made from same pattern as B&M cars 18-Aug-2023 KG Akerboom Added newsletter "not B&M" cars (with giraffe!) 20-Aug-2023 KG Akerboom Fixed NYCSHS link 22-Jan-2024 KG Akerboom Added Lester Breuer Blog link
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