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B&M Freight Cars Home

Boston & Maine 25000 Series Flat Cars

Index

• Builder's Photo
• Classification Card(s) for series
• Specifications
• ORER data
• ORER Notes
• Discussion, General Notes
• Car Book and/or Car Disposition Data
• ICC Valuation Data
• Paint Schemes
• References
• Photographs
• Renumberings/Conversions/Dispositions
• Modeling
• Revision History of this page

Builder's Photo

Does one exist?

B&M Classification Card(s)

Does one exist?

Specifications From Classification Cards

?

ORER data and numbers

ORER Size Data - 1903-1910

Dimensions	4/1903
Length	28'-31'
Width
Height
Capacity	30000-40000

ORER Size Data

Description			6/1910	2/1914	3/1914 (Flats only)	4/1914 (Flats only)	11/1914 (Flats only)
M.C.B. Designation							FM
Inside Dimensions	Length			28-31'	30'	30'	30'
	Width			8'-8"	8'-8"	8'-8"	8'-8"
	Height				7'-10" [typo?] (1)
Outside Dimensions	Length		28-31'	28-31'	30'	30'	30'
	Width	At Eaves or top of sides or platform	8' to 8'-8"	8'-8"	8'-8"	8'-8"	8'-8"
		Extreme Width
	Height from Rail	To Extreme Width
		To Eaves or top of sides or platform
		To Top of Running Board
		To Extreme Height
Door - Side opening	Width
	Height
Capacity	Cu Ft. Level Full
	Pounds		30 to 40000	40000	40000	40000	40000

(1) - probably a typo, the inside height should ONLY apply to the "wood rack" variants in this series (as shown, this was later "corrected")

ORER History

ORER Date (Year-Mo.)	Car Numbers	# of Cars	Description
1903 - 04	25000-25499	416	Flat
1903 - 05	"	413	"
1903 - 06	"	409	"
1903 - 07	"	398	"
1903 - 08	"	395	"
1903 - 09	"	391	"
1903 - 10	"	389	"
1903 - 11	"	388	"
1903 - 12	"	382	"
1904 - 01	"	378	"
1904 - 02	"	376	"
1904 - 03	"	368	"
1904 - 04	"	366	"
1904 - 05	"	367	"
1904 - 06	"	365	"
1904 - 07	"	360	"
1904 - 08	"	354	"
1904 - 09	"	352	"
1904 - 10	"	348	"
1904 - 11	"	344	"
1904 - 12	"	339	"
1905 - 01	"	335	"
1905 - 02	"	352	"
1905 - 03	"	328	"
1905 - 04	"	327	"
1905 - 05	"	326	"
1905 - 06	"	320	"
1905 - 07	"	315	"
1905 - 08	"	309	"
1905 - 09	"	300	"
1905 - 10	"	295	"
1905 - 11	"	293	"
1905 - 12	"	292	"
1906 - 01	(same)
1906 - 02	"	287	"
1906 - 03	"	285	"
1906 - 04	"	281	" ‡ note
1906 - 05	"	279	" (incl. ‡ note)
1906 - 06	(same) (incl. ‡ note)
1906 - 07	"	275	" (incl. ‡ note)
1906 - 08	"		" (incl. ‡ note)
1906 - 09	"	261	" (incl. ‡ note)
1906 - 10	"	256	" (incl. ‡ note)
1906 - 11	"	255	" (incl. ‡ note)
1906 - 12	"	253	" (incl. ‡ note)
1907 - 01	"	252	" (incl. ‡ note)
1907 - 02	"	245	" (incl. ‡ note)
1907 - 03	"	239	" (incl. ‡ note)
1907 - 04	"	235	" (incl. ‡ note)
1907 - 05	"	231	" (incl. ‡ note)
1907 - 06	"	224	" (incl. ‡ note)
1907 - 07	"	221	" (incl. ‡ note)
1907 - 08	"	218	" (incl. ‡ note)
1907 - 09	"	215	" (incl. ‡ note)
1907 - 10	(same) (incl. ‡ note)
1907 - 11	"	209	" (incl. ‡ note)
1907 - 12	"	206	" (incl. ‡ note)
1908 - 01	"	204	" (incl. ‡ note)
1908 - 02	"	202	" (incl. ‡ note)
1908 - 03	"	200	" (no ‡ note)
1908 - 04	"	197	"
1908 - 05	"	195	"
1908 - 06	"	193	"
1908 - 07	"	191	"
1908 - 08	(same)
1908 - 09	"	190	"
1908 - 10	"	186	"
1908 - 11	"	185	"
1908 - 12	"	184	"
1909 - 01	"	178	"
1909 - 02	"	175	"
1909 - 03	"	174	"
1909 - 04	"	172	"
1909 - 05	"	171	"
1909 - 06	(same)
1909 - 07	"	158	"
1909 - 08	"	156	"
1909 - 09	(same)
1909 - 10	"	154	"
1909 - 11	(same)
1909 - 12	"	149	"
1910 - 01	(same)
1910 - 02	"	148	"
1910 - 03	"	146	"
1910 - 04	"	145	"
1910 - 05	(same)
1910 - 06	"	143	"
1910 - 07	"	142	"
1910 - 08	"	139	"
1910 - 09	"	136	"
1910 - 10	"	134	"
1910 - 11	"	132	"
1910 - 12	"	130	"
1911 - 01	"	129	"
1911 - 02	"	127	"
1911 - 03	"	124	"
1911 - 04	(same)
1911 - 05	"	122	"
1911 - 06	(same)
1911 - 07	(same)
1911 - 08	"	119	"
1911 - 09	(same)
1911 - 10	(same)
1911 - 11	"	117	"
1911 - 12	"	116	"
1912 - 01	"	114	"
1912 - 02	"	113	"
1912 - 03	(same)
1912 - 04	"	112	"
1912 - 05	"	110	"
1912 - 06	"	109	"
1912 - 07	(same)
1912 - 08	(same)
1912 - 09	"	107	"
1912 - 10	"	105	"
1912 - 11	"	103	"
1912 - 12	(same)
1913 - 01	"	101	"
1913 - 02	"	102	"
1913 - 03	"	100	"
1913 - 04	"	93	"
1913 - 05	(same)
1913 - 06	"	92	"
1913 - 07	"	89	"
1913 - 08	"	87	"
1913 - 09	"	86	"
1913 - 10	"	78	"
1913 - 11	"	74	"
1913 - 12	(same)
1914 - 01	"	71	"
1914 - 02	"	70	"
1914 - 03	25007-25498	35	Wood Racks (ORER note 1)
	25007-25498	30	Flat (ORER note 2)
For the rest of this web page, I will be ignoring the wood rack data - see "Misc 25007" series for that data
1914 - 04	(same) (including note 2)
1914 - 05	(same) (including note 2)
1914 - 06	(same) (including note 2)
1914 - 07	(same) (including note 2)
1914 - 08	(same) (including note 2)
1914 - 09	(same) (including note 2)
1914 - 10	(same) (including note 2)
1914 - 11	(same) (including note 2)
1914 - 12	"	29	Flat (ORER note 2)
1915 - 01	"	28	Flat (ORER note 2)
1915 - 02	(same) (including note 2)
1915 - 03	(same) (including note 2)
1915 - 04	(same) (including note 2)
1915 - 05	(same) (including note 2)
1915 - 06	(same) (including note 2)
1915 - 07	(same) (including note 2)
1915 - 08	(same) (including note 2)
1915 - 09	(same) (including note 2)
1915 - 10	(same) (including note 2)
1915 - 11	(same) (including note 2)
1915 - 12	(same) (including note 2)
1916 - 01	(same) (including note 2)
1916 - 02	"	27	" (including note 2)
1916 - 03	"	26	" (including note 2)
1916 - 04	(same) (including note 2)
1916 - 05	"	25	" (including note 2)
1916 - 06	"	23	" (including note 2)
1916 - 07	(same) (including note 2)
1916 - 08	"	22	" (including note 2)
1916 - 09	(same) (including note 2)
1916 - 10	(same) (including note 2)
1916 - 11	(same) (including note 2)
1916 - 12	(same) (including note 2)
1917 - 01	"	21	" (including note 2)
1917 - 02	(same) (including note 2)
1917 - 03	"	20	" (including note 2)
1917 - 04	"	19	" (including note 2)
1917 - 05	"	18	" (including note 2)
1917 - 06	(same) (including note 2)
1917 - 07	"	17	"
1917 - 08	(same) (including note 2)
1917 - 09	"	13	" (including note 2)
1917 - 10	(same) (including note 2)
1917 - 11	(same) (including note 2)
1917 - 12	(same) (including note 2)
1918 - 01	(same) (including note 2)
1918 - 02	(same) (including note 2)
1918 - 03	(same) (including note 2)
1918 - 04	(same) (including note 2)
1918 - 05	(same) (including note 2)
1918 - 06	(same) (including note 2)
1918 - 07	(same) (including note 2)
1918 - 08	(same) (including note 2)
1918 - 09	(same) (including note 2)
1918 - 10	(same) (including note 2)
1918 - 11	(same) (including note 2)
1918 - 12	25016-25498	"	" (including note 2)
1919 - 01	25016-25436	"	" (including note 2)
1919 - 02	(same) (including note 2)
1919 - 03	(same) (including note 2)
1919 - 04	(same) (including note 2)
1919 - 05	(same) (including note 2)
1919 - 06	(same) (including note 2)
1919 - 07	(same) (including note 2)
1919 - 08	(same) (including note 2)
1919 - 09	(same) (including note 2)
1919 - 10	(same) (including note 2)
1919 - 11	(same) (including note 2)
1919 - 12	"	14	" (including note 2)
1920 - 01	(same) (including note 2)
1920 - 02	(same) (including note 2)
1920 - 03	(same) (including note 2)
1920 - 04	"	13	" (including note 2)
1920 - 05	(same) (including note 2)
1920 - 06	(same) (including note 2)
1920 - 07	(same) (including note 2)
1920 - 08	(same) (including note 2)
1920 - 09	"	11	" (including note 2)
1920 - 10	"	9	" [no note]
1920 - 11	25215-25436	7	"
1920 - 12	25215-25509	8	"
1921 - 01	(same)
1921 - 02	"	7	"
1921 - 03	(same)
1921 - 04	(same)
1921 - 05	"	6	"
1921 - 06	"	5	"
1921 - 07	25215-25436	3	"
1921 - 08	25399,25436	2	"
1921 - 09	(same)
1921 - 10	(same)
1921 - 11	(same)
1921 - 12	(same)
1922 - 01	25436	1	"
1922 - 02	(same)
1922 - 03	(same)
1922 - 04	(same)
1922 - 05	(same)
1922 - 06	(same)
1922 - 07	(same)
1922 - 08	(same)
1922 - 09	(same)
1922 - 10	(same)
1922 - 11	(same)
1922 - 12	(same)
1923 - 01	(same)
1923 - 02	(same)
1923 - 03	(same)
1923 - 04	(same)
1923 - 05	(same)
1923 - 06	(same)
1923 - 07	(same)
1923 - 08	(same)
1923 - 09	(same)
1923 - 10	(same)
1923 - 11	(same)
1923 - 12	(same)
1924 - 01	(same)
1924 - 02	(same)
1924 - 03	(same)
1924 - 04	(same)
1924 - 05	(same)
1924 - 06	(same)
1924 - 07	(same)
1924 - 08	(same)
1924 - 09	(same)
1924 - 10	(same)
1924 - 11	(same)
1924 - 12	(same)
1925 - 01	(same)
1925 - 02	(same)
1925 - 03	(same)
1925 - 04	(same)
1925 - 05	(same)
1925 - 06	(same)
1925 - 07	(same)
1925 - 08	(same)
1925 - 09	(same)
1925 - 10	(same)
1925 - 11	(same)
1925 - 12	Not listed

ORER Notes

‡ note (4/1906 - 2/1908)

A few cars in these series are of different lengths but will be renumbered when they go through the shops.

Note 1 (3/1914)

see 25007-25498 (list of car numbers with wood racks)

Note 2 (3/1914 - [10 or 11]/1920 )

Flat Cars - all are first listed 3/1914

Car #	Last Listed
	1914	1915	1916	1917	1918	1919	1920	1921	1922+
25022	→	→	→	→	→	→	8
25026	→	→	→	→	11
25027	→	→	2
25055	→	→	→	2
25058	→	→	4
25069	→	→	→	3
25088	→	→	5
25103	→	→	→	→	→	→	[9 or 10]
25133	11
25147	12
25171	→	→	→	6
25182	→	→	→	8
25215	→	→	→	→	→	→	→	7
25221	→	→	→	8
25226	→	→	→	8
25235	→	→	5
25258	→	→	→	→	→	→	8
25259	→	→	→	→	→	→	3
25268	→	→	7
25304	→	→	→	→	1
25305	→	→	→	→	→	→		by 7/1921
25312	→	→	12
25323	→	→	→	→	→	→		by 8/1921
25343	→	→	→	4
25360	→	→	→	→	12
25381	→	→	→	8
25406	→	→	1
25431	→	→	→	→	5
25436	→	→	→	→	→	→	→	→	11/1925
25498	→	→	→	→	6

Discussion, General Notes

• This series NEVER gets "*" indicating "Air Brakes" (1902-04 thru 1909-06)
• The cars in this series [I think] are a renumbering from the (1893) 25025-26999 series cars.
• 3/1914 - As the dimensions changed, I am not sure if these are new cars, rebuilds, or just re-dimensions of existing cars.
• B&MRRHS 1900-1907 Freight Car Lettering Book No. 1 (Reprint of B&M lettering diagrams)

  Note the "Book page number" below refers to the page number in the B&MRRHS book.
  As the B&MRRHS book's pages are NOT numbered, "1" is the first page with an actual diagram! (NOT the title pages or index pages)
  "U" = upper diagram on that page, "L" = lower diagram

  The "Diagram number" refers to the circled number (lower right corner) in each diagram (the original page number)

  Book page #	24 - L
  B&M Diagram #	46
  Diagram Date	1907
  Color on Diagram	Brown
  Notes on Diagram
  Datum	1900 Index	1907 Index
  Class of car	Flat Car	Flat Car
  Length	28'-32'	28'-31' [diagram says 28'-32']
  Capacity	20,000-40,000	30,000-40,000
  Car Numbers	25000-26099	25000-25499
  Page [original]	48	46

Car Book and/or Car Disposition Data

Acquisition Books (1898 - 1917 only)

Volume number refers original book number
Page numbers refer to numbers on pages in original book, NOT to pages in PDF file(s)
Dates refer to first/last dates expenses were recorded in the acquisition book, NOT to car delivery dates

Car Number(s)	Vol	Page	First Date	Last Date	Builder	$ / Car	Notes
25499	2	52	1911-08	1911-09		$271	From Cochrane Chemical Co.
25301	2	65	1912-09	-		$225	32', from B [J?] Brown

Car Books (1923-06 thru 1936-10, then 1944-05 thru 1960-03)

Volume number refers original book number
Part number refers to PDF file part as posted on B&MRRHS site
Page numbers refer to pages in PDF file(s) (L/R = Left or Right side of that PDF page)

Car Number(s)	Vol	Part	Page	Date	Action	Location	New #	Notes
25436	1	3	8	1922-11-11	Destroyed

Car Disposition Records

Source(s) (ID scope is for this web page only)
ID	Box	Folder	Folder name	Link Title	Approx. Start date	Approx. End date
A	1	5	Coal Cars	25397-25874 Flat - "A"	1921?	1925?

Data
Car Number	Disposition Source ID	Date Built	Disposition Date	Disposition	New Car #
25397	A	1881-05	1921-04	to	3395

ICC Valuation Data (circa 1914)

For more info on the ICC valuation data, see this web page

"Owning" RR	Car #	Val Sheet #	Index on Page	Car Type	Built Date	Builder	Capy	Underframe	Body	Notes
M&L	25026	[ML-1]	15	Flat	1888	[N/A]	40	wood	wood
M&L	25027	[ML-1]	16	Flat	pre-1896	[N/A]	40	wood	wood
B&M	25055	BM-16	8	Flat	1890-1896	Fitchburg	40-50	wood	wood
B&M	25069	BM-16	9	Flat	1890-1896	Fitchburg	40-50	wood	wood
B&M	25070	BM-16	10	Flat	1890-1896	Fitchburg	40-50	wood	wood
B&M	25088	BM-16	11	Flat	1890-1896	Fitchburg	40-50	wood	wood
B&M	25088	BM-16	15	Flat	1888-1892	Conn R.	40	wood	wood
B&M	25103	BM-16	12	Flat	1890-1896	Fitchburg	40-50	wood	wood
B&M	25133	BM-16	16	Flat	1888-1892	Conn R.	40	wood	wood
B&M	25147	BM-16	13	Flat	1890-1896	Fitchburg	40-50	wood	wood
B&M	25171	BM-16	14	Flat	1890-1896	Fitchburg	40-50	wood	wood
B&L	25221	[BL-3]	22	Flat	pre-1892	[N/A]	40	wood	[N/A]
B&L	25258	[BL-3]	23	Flat	pre-1896	Fitchburg	40	wood	[N/A]
B&L	25259	[BL-3]	24	Flat	pre-1886	[N/A]	40	wood	[N/A]
B&L	25268	[BL-3]	25	Flat	1892	Fitchburg	40	wood	[N/A]
B&L	25304	[BL-3]	26	Flat	1892	Fitchburg	40	wood	[N/A]
B&L	25312	[BL-3]	27	Flat	pre-1902	[N/A]	40	wood	[N/A]
B&L	25323	[BL-3]	28	Flat	pre-1896	[N/A]	40	wood	[N/A]
B&L	25343	[BL-3]	29	Flat	1892	Fitchburg	40	wood	[N/A]
B&L	25360	[BL-3]	30	Flat	pre-1890	[N/A]	40	wood	[N/A]
B&L	25406	[BL-3]	31	Flat	1892	Fitchburg	40	wood	[N/A]
B&L	25431	[BL-3]	32	Flat	1895	[N/A]	40	wood	[N/A]
B&M	25498	BM-16	17	Flat	1888-1892	Conn R.	40	wood	wood

Paint Schemes

References or other data

• Magazine/Book article(s)

Photographs

Renumberings/Conversions/Dispositions

Date	Quantity	New Numbers	Description
3/1914	35	25007-25498	Specific cars converted to Wood Racks Other than 3/1914, these will be covered as a separate series

Models

Revision History

File History for THIS page

Date	Who	Description
28-Dec-2019	KG Akerboom	Initial release
22-Mar-2020	KG Akerboom	Added data from 19 more ORERs
04-Apr-2020	KG Akerboom	Re-did references/photos section
05-May-2020	KG Akerboom	Moved ORER notes into separate section
07-May-2020	KG Akerboom	Reformatted "Flat car" table
15-May-2020	KG Akerboom	Added data from 4 more ORERs (1911,1919,1921,1931)
28-May-2020	KG Akerboom	updated 10/1919
21-Jul-2020	KG Akerboom	"Photos" table - changed "vertical" text to PNG of "sideways" text; added "Markings" columns
07- thru 16-Aug-2020	KG Akerboom	Added ORER data (History only, not dims or notes yet) for 63 more registers, courtesy of James Kinkaid
10-Oct-2020	KG Akerboom	Added E. Neubauer ORER data (car counts only, 15 issues)
17-Oct-2020	KG Akerboom	Added Car Book Data
28-Jan-2021	KG Akerboom	Added info from "1900-1907 Freight Car Lettering Diagrams" book
10-Apr-2021	KG Akerboom	Added info from 47 more ORERs 1903 thru 1917
04-Jul-2021	KG Akerboom	Reorganized Car Book and/or Car Disposition Data (Car # to 1st column, 2nd/other changes to new rows)
24-Oct-2021	KG Akerboom	Added car disposition record data
22-Jan-2022	KG Akerboom	Added ICC Valuation data
14-Sep-2022	KG Akerboom	Updated per [almost] complete ORER data
04-Jan-2023	KG Akerboom	Fixed headers and footers...hopefully
25-Feb-2023	KG Akerboom	Fixed link to scanned data (car books)
04-Mar-2023	KG Akerboom	Fixed issues in ORER "Note 2"